Here is a great article by a guy who has been through the thought process of “becoming a church” rather than just going to one. He is thinking contructively about organic church, and its implications for the Christian life.
Wish I had more time to reflect on his thoughts, but reading for Systematic Theology is taking over my life! What are your reactions to this intriguing article?
Today in my class Systematic Theology we discussed the necessary application of “communities of informed judgment” in studying about God. These communities are multifaceted, meaning the constiuents hold different jobs, personalities and perspectives on life. The key to beneficial dialogue is allowing these communities to live with a disposition to learning; authentically seeking the truth, rather than just affirming their own beliefs.
The professor also stated that a “mature practioner” of theology be present to help inform the community of the resources available for informed judgment on deciding who God is and what he is about in the world. As we discussed, it was made clear that this “mature practioner” is someone with a formal theological education.
My question is: where is the benefit for the revelation of the Holy Spirit on this community to speak to those least likely to, from our own perspective, know what they are talking about? If it is true that insight into who God is can happen in a seminary, can’t it also happen through revelation and spiritual transformation through years of study and prayer?
My professor does make a good point: why do we defer to doctors on everything medical, and yet feel that anyone can lead a Bible study? He asked, “Why do any of you think you are getting an Master’s Degree?”
But I wonder: if I truly believe every person is made in the image of God, and that God reveals himself (though mysteriously) to his image bearers, then orienting myself to a clergy/laity system of professional ministers coupled with “the rest of us” is a contradiction to those beliefs. It is true that not every person is made for deep theological reflection 8 hours a day like the academic or the monk might be, but does that mean that only certain people are equipped to show us the resources that point us to God? Sounds a little too much like the OT priests to me…
thoughts?
You do raise an important question there –
Where is the benefit for the revelation of the Holy Spirit on this community to speak to those least likely to, from our own perspective, know what they are talking about?
With the lens of simple church, I place a great deal of (if not more) value on the speech of those least likely to ‘know’ what they are talking about compared to those who seem to know so much.
“Trust in the Lord and do not lean on your own understanding…”
Also, note:
As we discussed, it was made clear that this “mature practioner†is someone with a formal theological education.
Not exactly – he said that a “mature practioner” was one of maturity and wisdom – perhaps an elder or deacon; this is not to be directly associated with age or formal theological education.
—
I do enjoy the discussion surrounding the definition of theology- including the social and hard sciences along side other disciplines. The question then becomes, if our scope has been ‘limited’ to scripture, how do we know our scope is limited? If we expand our scope to incorporate a more holistic approach – how do we know that we’re being so much more holistic? Have you ever seen F-O-G before? 
I am right with you on your thoughts here. I do believe God calls us to study and to learn, but He does this in a fashion that promotes ever-increasing dependency upon Him. In a get together of Jesus followers, all have equal privilege to contribute to the dialog. A newborn believer who is illiterate can be used of the Spirit to communicate matters of God’s heart just as appropriately as the believer with more degrees than a thermometer. Actually, it may be more challenging for the “educated†as he or she will have to overcome their tendency to lean upon their own understanding and endeavor to have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. I do not care for your professor’s comparison of other community authorities to the clergy class. This journey with Jesus is not of this world. When someone asks who our Spiritual authority is we should be able to say Jesus, and more importantly Jesus really should be our Spiritual authority. Too often the “clergy class†has attempted to get people to approach them as the Head. I am so tired of all the competition to be the local Spiritual expert. Enjoyed the post! Keep it up!
good words rob. your second sentence about depending upon God. That is in contrast to how we like to depend on the spiritual expert to tell us what to know or to believe. We have to move from depending on the experts to depending on God.
Also, if we put the power to know in the hands of other believers then us academically trained experts face job insecurity. There is some job preservation seeping into your professors discussion Mark, I believe
I don’t know, a rejection of “OT priests” sounds too much like a NT/OT dichotomy which I soundly reject. I think there is a play for lay and ordained ministry, for both the trained, the spiritual and those who are a smidgeon of both of none of either.
In my own tradition, we strongly affirm that each person is called to ministry by virtue of their baptism. Here is what our catechism says:
The Ministry
Q. Who are the ministers of the Church?
A. The ministers of the Church are lay persons, bishops, priests, and deacons.
Q. What is the ministry of the laity?
A. The ministry of lay persons is to represent Christ and his Church; to bear witness to him wherever they may be; and, according to the gifts given them, to carry on Christ’s work of reconciliation in the world; and to take their place in the life, worship, and governance of the Church.
Q. What is the ministry of a bishop?
A. The ministry of a bishop is to represent Christ and his Church, particularly as apostle, chief priest, and pastor of a diocese; to guard the faith, unity, and discipline of the whole Church; to proclaim the Word of God; to act in Christ’s name for the reconciliation of the world and the building up of the Church; and to ordain others to continue Christ’s ministry.
Q. What is the ministry of a priest or presbyter?
A. The ministry of a priest is to represent Christ and his Church, particularly as pastor to the people; to share with the bishop in the overseeing of the Church; to proclaim the Gospel; to administer the sacraments; and to bless and declare pardon in the name of God.
Q. What is the ministry of a deacon?
A. The ministry of a deacon is to represent Christ and his Church, particularly as a servant of those in need; and to assist bishops and priests in the proclamation of the Gospel and the administration of the sacraments.
Q. What is the duty of all Christians?
A. The duty of all Christians is to follow Christ; to come together week by week for corporate worship; and to work, pray, and give for the spread of the kingdom of God.
Today is Project: Graduation at ACU. It’s Centennial year, I have been amazed at the BIGGNESS of this whole event. Megatrons all over campus, tents, chairs…it will be something to behold.
Another cool thing: mom is coming into town later today, and will be staying with the Mackey’s, the house we are moving into in a week or two. It will be good for her to meet them, to know what loving people we are moving in with.
Another really cool thing!: Yesterday was the second convening of the Secret Agents in Abilene, Agent B, the Librarian, Jack-of-all-trades, and myself.  It was great just sharing ideas and laughter and secret agent stuff with each other. What I found most interesting was that when we began praying for those who don’t know the Lord, a few of us realized that we were ministering to the same people!
This could have two meanings: either we are permeating the entire popularion of Abilene’s lost and therefore running into each other, or we are focusing on too narrow a population, while remaining totally blind to the thousands of others who are lost in our fair mother city. Now, I know that just a couple of secret agents for the chief executive officer of the universe is not the only forces he is working with – but why should we settle for only seeing one sector of our city touched by the Gospel? Why not at least get to know people from other neighborhoods?
Gotta love these guys, because more than anyone else I know, they are looking for new people who need to know the Lord, and making deep commitments of time, resources and love into these people letting them know that they matter to God. These are the kind of guys I want to hang around. Our secret agent group is planning to meet more regularly for prayer and hamburgers. Not a bad deal.
mark, you said, This could have two meanings: either we are permeating the entire popularion of Abilene’s lost and therefore running into each other, or we are focusing on too narrow a population, while remaining totally blind to the thousands of others who are lost in our fair mother city.
a third possibility… coincidence
peace
OK Jack. The fair mother city is only “yay” big. And eventually you’re gonna run into somebody more than once at HEB or Wal-Mart (well, maybe YOU won’t be at Wal-Mart…).
But are you gonna dismiss the fact that you and Scott know THE SAME GUY and both of you have concerns and prayers for him?
Call it coincidence if you want. But I think the CEO orchestrated that somehow or another…
OK agent b, you got a point…
i’m not the most spiritual one among us for sure…
i just didn’t like the options mark gave…
peace
I don’t want to start a big conversation about nothing on Mark’s blog.
…but what do you mean by “i’m not the most spiritual one among us”?
Is that self-depreciative humor? or something else?
I think you’re pretty spiritual…
On a similar vein, I’m intrigued with how “regular” Christians see other Christians with larger God-vocab as being more spiritual. It’s like the more Jesus jibberish we can throw in there the higher we climb on the clerical ladder.
Then again, remembering that everything we do is “spiritual” is something that many Christians in our culture need to live into more deeply.
Scott, and 
miller are discussing.
rob horton 2:34 pm on May 17, 2006 Permalink
I really enjoy Wayne’s material. From Wayne, I was able to realize that this is not about I.C. vis-a-via H.C. This is about being the Church.
Mark 10:10 pm on May 17, 2006 Permalink
Thanks for your thoughts Rob. Its true that many times we find our identity more in what we are not than what we truly are. Wayne’s article is helpful because it clears up much of the ambiguity about what we ARE constructively, through answering questions that many people are asking. “So why don’t you ‘go to church’ anymore?” I can’t go to church, and more than I can go to Willis. I love that.
rob horton 11:27 am on May 18, 2006 Permalink
Awesome!
Scott 4:17 pm on May 18, 2006 Permalink
A couple of thoughts:
Didn’t Jesus make his culture’s version of church and church ritual an important part of his routine? He even preached at a few.
Where is the talk about being agents of change within a church? How do we expect a church to change if we refuse to invest our energies setting examples, teaching truth, and fighting institutional religion. Luther had so much influence on the Catholic church because he never intended to leave the Catholic church.
Mark 4:57 pm on May 18, 2006 Permalink
Great points Scott. Hopefully there will be more and more Christians that know of the opportunities to connect congregations to community life. Luther is a great example of this, so is Jesus. Why is it Jesus never left the Jewish faith if that’s what all his followers ended up doing (although, it was over time).
But that’s exactly the point. Some people are ready, and need a place of healing TODAY. Others are ready to bring their churches, families and friends along with them.
You know, the old african proverb is: “If you want to travel fast, travel alone. If you want to travel far, go together.”