Godgrown

Updates from February, 2009 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

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  Mark 7:20 am on February 13, 2009 Permalink | Reply
  Tags: dave ramsey ( 2 ), debt ( 2 ), larry burkett, seminary, tallskinnykiwi   

  Church Planting in the Economic Downturn 

  

  Yes – going through seminary was a blessing and continues to keep my head up in a hard mission field.

  Yes – seminary is a financial chain around my neck.

  Both statements are true.

  I know others in my seminary who have taken mega-church preaching positions for the sake of paying off debt (some are making near 100,000K a year!).  Some say that this puts the pastor in an unhealthy position of being “the mouthpiece of the rich” and unable to prophetically speak against greed, etc, since he too is under the weight of debt.

  At a church level, we’re seeing new church plants cost somewhere in the upper reaches of a million dollars per plant in the first 3 years!  Is that really something that can “catch fire” or “catalyze a movement” in these economic times?  Other established churches are building huge additions to their meeting space to accommodate their audience.  Right now, many of those construction projects have stopped – in limbo while the recession has its grip on the nation’s pocketbook.    Many other churches live in a state similar to the banks that recently tanked – with debts far outweighing their assets, especially since churches are non-profit organizations.  Many churches just live in a constant state of debt, teetering on the brink of disaster, and regularly hold “Commitment Sundays” to avoid catastrophe or to fund the next project.

  This was more feasible to do when times were “good.”  When construction was booming, when stocks were booming.  Right now, the Church has to decide what is most important – it has to step up and live differently from the rest of the world.  No organization will bail out indebted churches – only Christ can.

  To those churches that operate debt-free: Thank You!  Teach the rest of us!  For those that don’t – this is not a slam against you – God loves you and is pretty good at paying debts (money and sin), but we can’t expect him to “bless our work” if we’re plowing deeper and deeper into bondage with the God of Mammon.

  

  TallSkinnyKiwi, a prolific blogger on all things emergent and organic, has written a fantastic piece on the current shape of church planting as it relates to financial sustainability.

  I agree with TallSkinnyKiwi:

  One of the reasons I believe the simple, organic/house/emerging church movement is continually gaining ground and in some countries, blossoming beyond expectations, is because it is sustainable and reproducible, just as the early church was.

  Yes – we’re reaching lots of people with huge church plants.

  Yes – the burden of a church campus is a huge financial chain around a church’s neck.

  Both statements are true.

  —

  Part 1: Church Planting in the Economic Downturn

  Part 2: The CEO that bails ME out

  

  Mark, Daniel, miller and one other person are discussing. Toggle Comments

   
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    miller 8:32 am on February 14, 2009 Permalink

    mark,

    good thoughts.

    one question, you say “we’re reaching lots of people with huge church plants.”

    really? ’cause my impression is that these churches grow largely through immigration from other churches.

    i wonder how things are going for Joel Osteen and his “best life now” church.

    good post,
    peace

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    Mark 8:36 am on February 14, 2009 Permalink

    i think you’re right – most mega-churches pull in transfer christians. but a lot of new, launch-day style church plants do baptize/convert lots of new Christians. I think they do a good job of “getting them in the door” of their faith, but like we heard from Willow Creek, are struggling with how to disciple them. Thoughts?

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    Daniel 8:44 am on February 16, 2009 Permalink

    When did we all decide to believe that debt=happiness/prosperity/advancement/necessity/prudence? Lies! The fruit of the Spirit is, among other things, patience and self-control. Piling on debt to get everything we want RIGHT NOW! or ASAP! seems to be the opposite of godliness.

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    Mark 8:50 am on February 16, 2009 Permalink

    danx, if only you had written that comment on this blog 8 years ago, before i took on tons of debt myself…of course, it would’a been pretty sweet watching you write a comment on a blog that wouldn’t be created for years to come…*du du du du* twilight zone…

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  Mark 6:54 pm on October 15, 2008 Permalink | Reply  

  Pray4Chicago 

  These are exciting times.  Today I spent a few hours at the Kopi Traveler’s Cafe in the Andersonville city neighborhood.  This is one of my favorite places to meet people.  Today I met up with 5 church planters who are spread out and around the state of Illinois.  This team is thinking strategically about how to recruit, equip and send church planting teams all around the the state, including Chicago.

  We met to talk about the Pray4Chicago project, a developing dream to invite youth groups, college students, missionaries-in-training, simple churches, and others to head out into the city and witness God at work.  Sort of a “praying with your eyes open” experience.  At this moment the whole thing is in a beta stage, but we’re hoping to establish a sort of regular event that includes groups from inside and outside the city.  I talk more about the project here.  The whole goal of P4C is to be a first step for Christians in responding to what may be God calling them to urban church planting.  I’m excited to see others who are catching the vision, and I look forward to working together with them!

  

  Here’s how it could work – a network of simple churches (or a youth group, campus ministry, or congregation) in Chicago attend a “Pray4Chicago” event, starting on a Saturday morning. Several church planters/ those passionate about the harvest would offer a bit of orientation to the project – that the participants will be spending the next day and a half in small groups (2-3 in each) prayer-walking through a city neighborhood.

  Each group will be given a map of a city neighborhood, and then, armed with a journal and a digital camera, head out to “pray with their eyes open.” Watching for where God is already working in the city (ministries, social programs, parks, bars, etc). They’ll take pictures of what they see, eat in their neighborhood, and possibly even sleep there.

  Sunday they’ll worship there – either at a local church or as a small group out in a park or coffeeshop – somewhere outside of their comfort zone. After worship, we’ll meet for debriefing. Groups will put their photos/discoveries/reflections into the website (behind a login), and then come together for a pizza party.

  At the party, each group will present their “God findings” to everyone. It will close with one of the facilitators inviting the participants to live with a sense of awareness that where they live is a mission field – and that God is up to exciting things right in their own neighborhood. The goal of the whole event is to motivate participants toward planting a church in the city, or (for the non-locals) taking it back to their town and starting there.
  ———————-
  So – its still in beta stage, but I’d love your thoughts. What do you like – what would make this idea even better?

  
   
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  Mark 9:50 am on September 18, 2008 Permalink | Reply  

  The Great Chicago…Flood? 

  

  There is a legend in Chicago city history – the Great Chicago Fire of 1871.  It was possibly the greatest U.S. disaster of the 19th century, and only from the immediate rebuilding of the city and support from cities all over the world was Chicago able to emerge as global city and economic hub for the country.  It’s why the city is sometimes known as “the Second City” because so much burned in the fire that the rebuilding essentially created a whole new community.

  

  Over the past week, Hurricane Ike partnered with a Pacific tropical depression dumped over 90 billion gallons of water over Chicago this past weekend, flooding sewers and rivers, and eventually streets and whole city blocks.  Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich declared Chicago and the 7 surrounding counties disaster areas.  Though Chicago is far from any coast, the combination of both storm systems actually gave the city more rain that Houston!

  Over the air waves, I kept hearing stories of families whose basements had been flooded out, or others who had evacuated from their homes and were living in temporary shelters.  During an age of extreme weather, I have seen New Orleans and Indonesia and others get hit hard, and yet still felt disconnected from the disaster and did not involve myself in assisting those in need.  Usually the voices in my head say something like, “I’ll just get in the way,” or “I don’t have time to do this – I’ve got to take care of myself.”  When disaster came to us, I felt God saying, “The body of Christ helps its neighbors – you are a part of the body of Christ, and your neighbors are in need of your help.”  It was pretty obvious what I was supposed to do next.

  I put on my oldest clothes, put some of my personal stuff in a ziplock bag and headed out the door.  I didn’t have any tools, and virtually no knowledge of how to safely deal with a flood, but I went with hands to serve.

  

  The streets in Albany Park were either filled with cars trying to get out, or water pouring in.  I walked up to a water managment truck waiting in the long traffic lines and asked where to help out.  They pointed me toward St. Louis street, and I set out.

  There I met a river where once was a street.  No body was out except an old man named Pete, who was fuming mad that no one in the city was listening to him.  He had worked on sewers and flooding back in Greece, and knew that all they needed to do was vaccuum the clog in the sewer system, and the water would recede.  In the meantime, he’s trying to figure out how to drain his completely flooded basement, check his foundation and turn his power back on.

  More city crew began arriving at the dead end street.  Most were wearing nice shoes and weren’t getting into the water.  I hadn’t yet gotten wet either.  And when I saw some locals at the end of the street repositioning sandbags against the riverbanks (they were just sitting out in the street), I felt like I needed to join them in the filthy waters.  A city official stopped me after he saw my intentions, telling me how nasty the water was since the sewers had overflowed.  It was tempting to turn around and find some other way to help out – I’ll be honest – I’ve never been fond of tuberculosis.  I paused, waiting for the Spirit to give me some confirmation that I truly was supposed to wade into the waters.  Maybe against sound judgment, but certainly not against the model Christ gave us, I joined my neighbors in the mess.

  

  We worked for several hours, pushing back the power of the river.  There is something deeply spiritual and worshipful in tossing sandbags.  Among the dozen or so out there were Mark and Tanya, a young couple who worked for the Chicago Symphony.  Their whole basement was floor-to-celing flooded, and their first floor was soaking too.  I can’t imagine the feeling, but I kept wondering what good it was to fight the river since everthing was submerged already.  Then I heard some talking about how the water had severely weakened their foundations.  Yeah – that would put me to work too!

  Some were really angry at the city for doing so little.  While I was there, it seemed the city was doing everything it could with all the redtape it has established for this sort of thing.  It was disappointing to see neighbors in the mud and waters while city workers still had nice, dry shoes on.  One city official came over and helped us with a sandbag line, saying, “I just can’t stand back and watch – this is what I’m here for…”

  It became a great mix of neighbors and city workers.  Those working for a paycheck and those working to save their home, and me, just watching the momentary community rising above the disaster.  I did not go to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina in 2005, in fact, I’ve never been to a disaster area in my life.  This was a sort of baptism into serving those in crisis – just a few miles from my own home.

  

  John 1:14 says that Word of God became flesh and moved into the neighborhood.  If the powerful, pure creative power of God can become something as lowly, frail and decaying as a human, shouldn’t we be able to walk through sewer water and share in the burden of humanity with fellow neighbors?  This is a struggle for me – but it is the message of the cross.  It is, like Ghandhi and Jesus agree, how we lose ourselves to find our true self.

  

  Mark, chad, and Marc are discussing. Toggle Comments

   
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    Marc 2:53 pm on September 19, 2008 Permalink

    Hey Mark,

    We really appreciated your help that Monday! Jumping in like that, you certainly offered more help than the city’s people who mostly just stood around. When we carried the last of the sandbags, after the street was basically clear, we finally got some more help from city workers.

    The city had many people out there without a clear direction on what to do. They didn’t listen to our pleas for help and their supervisors were nowhere to be found. That’s why we decided to take matters in our own hands and that’s why people like you were a blessing.

    So, thank you again! Maybe it was a little sign that, in all the mess, when I pulled out my nativity set from the basement, all the figures were wrapped in two plastic bags, clean and dry…

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    chad 10:08 pm on September 22, 2008 Permalink

    hey dude,

    That flood looks crazy. Was y’alls place damaged? sounds like a great opportunity to meet people in need and help ‘em out. i’ve looked for ya on skype a few times and haven’t caught ya yet but we should set a time to catch up soon. keep us posted on flood damage and we’ll be keeping y’all, neighbors, etc in prayers.

    Chad

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    Mark 7:41 am on September 23, 2008 Permalink

    i’ll jump on skype and we’ll find each other for a chat, looking forward to hearing about life on the west side!