I met Greg Scott online through his blog. He is a teaching pastor for a network of a simple churches in Joliet, IL (southwest suburbs of Chicago). Our conversations are always edifying – thought I’d share just one:
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me: for me, i love a good parable – i’ve got friends who make youtube video parables
4:02 PMÂ not sure (about the hc layers) – i know that in life, we sociologically have “crowds” the “72″ the “12 disciples” the “peter, james and john” as well as a “beloved”.
4:03 PMÂ my fear is that in church entertainment, we have lost the beauty of a “band of brothers” (or sisters) that fight for our heart and encourage us on the journey
4:04 PMÂ my friend wrote a great piece on how the church is like a fractal community. check it out here: http://towardsimplicity.net/?page_id=925
i think this has profound implications for being a fluid, organic church
4:06 PMÂ Greg: hmmm. I’ll check it out becasue I basically disagree with the socialogical statement you made. I don’t think that happens naturally at all and so, most people don’t have that at all
4:07 PMÂ me: tell me more
4:10 PMÂ Greg: Well, in our society expecially, there is a natural tendency toward selfishness and self-centeredness. combined with our “conecting” via technology (any I am not against using it as a tool) almost exclusively is creating a society that is more and more shallow, selfabsorbed, unconnected and detached –
  and we like it taht way.
  Most Christinas don’t have two or three other families that they conect with except on a sunday or a formatted small group
4:11 PMÂ who are there 72?
  Who is intimate enough to speak to as Jesus spoke to the 12?
  RARELY do we find someone iwth a 3 or 4 that can be intimately discipled through life circumstances
  It is all too time consuming and requires more than most are willing to give
4:12 PMÂ Okay, I’m ranting a bit, but it is going to be on e of the most difficult things that the SC’s will face
 me: yeah…maybe i should say its not a “sociological” reality, but a divine desire
4:13 PMÂ people DESIRE community – those 2 or 3 bro or sis’ – but few are ready to see it become a reality
  sort of like Cole’s LTG’s, but more like life, less like a program
4:14 PMÂ Greg: Well, again – are you sure?
 me: they desire community, but they don’t know how to FEED that desire.
4:15 PMÂ not sure if that makes sense…i’m interested in your feedback
4:17 PMÂ Greg: what I mean is that most of the 20 somethings that I run into and get a chance to talk with – are AFRAID of relational intimacy. they are avoiding it unless it comes with a built in buffer like alcohol, internet, limited time involvement such as work, etc. Several of them are now Christians and NOW they see that the life they were choosing was keeping them alone and lonely, but at the time – it was their security
  BTW – same is true with many older people as well
4:18 PMÂ me: that sounds like a bunch of people i know
  myself included. tacit intimacy (blogs, txts) are good for keeping in touch, but few seem to know what to do with more than “keeping in touch”
4:19 PMÂ so the big q for me is: do we even proclaim another reality? one that speaks of God’s innate intimacy he shares with himself and his creation? and if so, how?
4:20 PMÂ Greg: It sems to me that we are entering a phase of spiritual living that will require us to encroach into peoples “space” and security – but as a culture and as a church we are running the opposite direction trying to meet the felt neds of people who are feeling things in a decidedly unhealthy way
  sorry was typing istead of finishing reading
  I think yo have to more thna ever
  and lovign enough to risk losing relationships is going to be hard and vital
4:21 PMÂ me: good point
4:22 PMÂ Greg: I may also just be involved in what Gpod is saying to me about this church I’m speaking at that I’m overanalyzing the whole thing too…
  
4:23 PMÂ me: ya know, i think if anyone can teach us community, it is Christ…him and maybe the the most elderly in our nation.
4:24 PMÂ they lived a life of community – neighbors in each other’s kitchen cabinets, children playing together in the street…and NO internet!
  while community would’ve been limited, it would’ve meant something
4:25 PMÂ anytime intimacy in community is pursued by my wife and i, others consider us joining a cult or something
4:27 PMÂ Greg: makes me wonder if there is a connection between Daniels “Many will go here and there to increase knowledge” and Jesus’ “the love of many will grow cold”
  If they called Jesus andhis follwers a cult
  we should expect the same
  maybe we should be most concerned when we are accepted as “normal”
4:29 PMÂ me: ha, good point
  let me ask something of you -
4:30 PMÂ trina and i are moving to chicago in the summer. i know we’ll be in contact in some way, hopefully staying in meaningful friendship and ministry together…
4:31 PMÂ …trina and i want to pursue community hard – communion with God, and with his people. But I think friendships that help guide HOW we do that is of utmost importance.
4:32 PMÂ through discernment, wisdom, etc, i’m hoping you’ll help us find healthy, deep community that helps us get over our self-centeredness
 Greg: Now, while I agree with you – God thinks you are completely funny…
4:33 PMÂ Sam and I have been struggling through how worldly we have become with our possessions, home, – all the nice things we’ve accumulated over a few years
  and I should be asking you to help me consider how to give up these “hard earned” things
4:34 PMÂ His calling is a constant reminder that we are to be a people wo “mourn”
  nothte dead around us…
  but the things we are constantly dying to to follow Jesus adequately
  If I can help you, yo have whatever I can give, but I will not claim it to be much…
4:37 PMÂ me: great. this is encouraging. at times i get overwhelmed with the task of “casting vision of the good news” to people who have no concept of it and seem not to want it at all. it seems you’re equally as frustrated with people who just want to remain isolated and selfish.
4:38 PMÂ Greg: I think I am past being frutrated, but that leaves me –
4:39 PMÂ me: its great to discover that i’m running beside others like yourself- those who are truly desiring another way of life – another economy of God’s shalom
 Greg: angry is the word that comes to mind – but it is an angry at myself that asks “What are you goign to do about it?”
4:40 PMÂ Yes, It is good form my perspective to not feel alone as well
  It helps me to be bolder
  and less fearful
4:41 PMÂ me: that to me is good news! that to me is part of what the “church” is – learning to get over ourself and learn from others/love others.
4:42 PMÂ Greg: yep
  a thought about your friends blog…
4:43 PMÂ It seems like pretty much what you read from SC/HC advocates until he says, “and nobody needs to have more than two of these centered groups..”
4:44 PMÂ At that point my interest is piqued as I have been wondering how to get the tow house churches I am working with out of thier “church in a box in a home” mentality of being happy with their circumstances and loving each other – but not reaching out to anyone else
4:45 PMÂ And is it as simple as implementing a “2 group” expectation?
4:46 PMÂ Your “safe” group where you are built up and encouraged – and your “dangerous” group where everything you are is on the line with Jesus?
 me: i like the language there
4:47 PMÂ Greg: I’m wondering if I shouldn’t modify his thought to everyone NEEDS be involved in two groups to be trulyhealthy
4:48 PMÂ I have been at the point of simply wanting to disband the whole thing just to try and split them up – but the truth is they do a LOT of ministry together. But it seldom involves more than them packing boxes or writing checks
4:50 PMÂ Itis weird, but if churches were suddenly the targets of terrorists and people began meeting in homes
  each one of them could and would lead a SC
  But to reach out to the world around them in this way is beyond their willingness to do
4:51 PMÂ I do have to smile, though, at the thought of Jesus drawing out the fractal diagrams in the dirt for his disciples…
4:52 PMÂ me: ha, yeah
miller 10:17 pm on February 6, 2008 Permalink
i’m with you sis! i agree wholeheartedly…
i think we are over-connected.
and it kinda scares me. i mean you hear the commercials where people are conversing in TM speak. but i wonder if that isn’t where the culture is going, all the while oblivious to the realities and complexities of real relationship.
i think we can see some evidence that it isn’t a very bright prospect that it will just be a fad. i really think that most people have more “drama” in their lives today as a result of the Seinfelds and the Survivors and the StarSearches…
but thats just us i guess, or at least its just me =)
peace
Mark 8:11 am on February 7, 2008 Permalink
We Americans really have no idea how to be friends, do we? What does it even mean to be friends? Does it mean we have clicked “accept” to a friend invitation? It’s strange – many times after doing this with an acquaintance, our next rendez-vous will be filled with “friendly” banter about how we’re now “officially friends” because we’re friends on facebook. That is usually the last time we’ll talk.
You’re right – it helps with networking – for pursuing our own interests and agendas anyway. But it sucks the life out of what would otherwise be real relationships.
I suppose we’re creating two polarities that don’t actually exist. Since letters, humans have been creating inorganic substitutes for themselves and their relationships. We in the 21st century have just refined those skills to an art. And in some ways, we’re better for it! (Your blog’s discussion for instance.)
Let’s keep this conversation going…online or in person!
Agent B 12:52 pm on February 9, 2008 Permalink
I have no ideas, but…
Thanks for wording my disdain for facebook and such so well. Good job.
I recently (and reluctantly) joined the myspace ranks. But only because it was getting impossible to land music gigs without one.